SALT PIG
Lukas and Ellie really hate washing greens. We may be two professional cookbook writers, but when the aprons come off, we eat quesadillas for dinner more often than we might like to admit. Real home cooking is improvisational, intimate, surprising, creative, sometimes mundane, sometimes memorable, and always best when debriefed with a pal. Topics include: dried mushrooms and where to use them, making stock out of arguable trash, the joy of broccoli pancakes, what not to bring to a dinner party, how we really clean our cast iron pans (even when people say not to), gauging the lifelessness of one’s sourdough starter, and a seemingly neverending discussion on how to pronounce fricassee. Join us as we get together to break down the flops, the good enoughs, and the pleasures and hilarity of home kitchen life.
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Elinor Hutton has been a writer, ghostwriter, editor, and publishing and culinary consultant since 2010. She’s worked on more than 25 books to date, including four New York Times bestsellers, most recently as the co-author of Gisele Bündchen’s Nourish. She’s also judged the James Beard awards twice, ran the test kitchen for a meal-kit company, and has worked in book packaging and design.
Lukas Volger is the author of six cookbooks, including Start Simple and Bowl, and has collaborated on numerous other cookbooks, including two New York Times bestsellers. Previously, he co-founded the award-winning queer food journal Jarry, and created a line of premium, fresh, and locally made veggie burgers called Made by Lukas. He lives in Brooklyn. www.lukasvolger.com
SALT PIG
Is Costco Worth It?
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Welcome to SALT PIG! There comes a time every year when we wonder: is paying for a membership at Costco worth it? Especially given the spectacle of the almost-fistfights in the parking lot, the morality of buying the world’s most giant chicken breasts, the longest lines, the tallest soft serves, the lifetime supply of Zyrtec that might expire before you can take it all, the physical grappling to fit it all in your freezer when you get home…it is truly savage. But then, after the food is all ziplock-portioned and decanted and the millions of boxes are tied up and dragged to recycling, there is a deep contentment, knowing that you might never, ever, EVER need to go shopping again. Is this just the price one pays to wild-out at one of the few clubs middle-aged people still go to?
Discussed in this episode:
- Ellie’s Old-Fashioned Rice Gratin
- Can the Golden Age of Costco Last? from The New Yorker
- The olive oil we both buy: Terra Delyssa organic extra virgin olive oil
- Lukas’ favorite Costco treat: Whisps
Welcome to Salt Pig, where two cookbook writers chat about the ups and downs of actual home kitchen life. What are we talking about this week, Ellie?
SPEAKER_02We're talking about Costco and whether it's worth it. Um my membership has lapsed and I'm at a crossroads right now. So um so yeah, we talk about the good, the bad, the ugly, the fistfetter. Yeah, the fist fed I almost got into. Um all sorts of things. But also, you know, as a company it seems to have some some things going right for it. And as a consumer, something's right, some things kinda kinda hectic. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00It's an institution. It's yeah, you know, it's there. It's a lifestyle. Yeah, whether we want to go shopping at Costco or not. Well, you can find new and old episodes wherever you listen to podcasts, and check us out on Substack2 at saltpig.substack.com. And if you are enjoying this podcast, please do us a huge favor and rate or review us on whatever platform you're using. We really appreciate it. Makes a big difference.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Or tell a friend.
SPEAKER_00Or tell a friend. That's also great. All right.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Let's get started. What kind of salt do you cook with normally?
SPEAKER_02Um the is it diamond kosher?
SPEAKER_00The kosher, the one that's like flaky and that all the chefs love.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And it's not, and I've gotten dinged on all sorts of textures, and I always get confused. But I think it's, yeah, the diamond kosher.
SPEAKER_00Kosher salt. Yes. And um I don't know if you've noticed this, but at my grocery stores around here, it's gotten really expensive all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_02Wildly expensive. And the boxes have gotten smaller.
SPEAKER_00And the boxes are smaller, but it's like over $10. I know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I know.
SPEAKER_00But I think I do think it is the same salt. It's just gotten really expensive. Like they are now charging a premium for it because everybody's seeking it out.
SPEAKER_02Yes. But it's I'm literally like this box, I mean it it lasts a long time, but I'm like, yeah, I don't know, it's like over ten dollars for a box of salt. And I'm like it's nuts. It's nuts.
SPEAKER_00And it's not like it's not special salt.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00The only reason it's become special is because all the chefs have been like, oh, this is what we use because it's so easy to season through pinches and you can see it as you're seasoning. Yes. Rather than like the fine salt.
SPEAKER_02I know, and I keep thinking about switching salts just as a cost savings, and then every time I get another salt, first of all, it throws everything off, but also like I don't know, you get used to that feeling in your fingers of of what to do. So yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I I had switched to like a pink salt.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00Like a Himalayan fine salt, not the moist kind, like the dry kind. Yeah. And because it there is a slight difference in flavor. Like the flavor is a little bit more complex. Um and I got used to that, but then for some reason I like had was like after a photo shoot or something, I had like the kosher salt back in my kitchen. I was like, oh god, this is so nice. Yeah. It just really feels good like in your hands.
SPEAKER_02It really feels good.
SPEAKER_00And it makes like seasoning to taste a lot easier than the than the fine salt.
SPEAKER_02Oh, definitely. And also I would think for recipe development, it would be really hard. I've had that exact conversation with clients in the past where they're like, I only use pink Himalayan salt. And I'm like, we can't call for that exclusively in a cookbook. I don't want to be a jerk. But I was like, we just can't. It's just like a sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00I don't actually I don't mind that in a I don't mind that in a cookbook because to me it's like, all right, well, this is who you are. I'm gonna use my salt. Right. Because I think that's what like most people do. But I'm like, this tells me who you are that you are using Himalayan salt. It feels like personality to me.
SPEAKER_02It is, it is personality, that's true. It just doesn't feel that translatable. I mean, if you could say pink salt or whatever salt you're using, then it would work out great. But like I mean, I don't I can't remember how salty pink salt is. Is it kind of comparable?
SPEAKER_00In my mind, like the fine salts are all kind roughly the same. And if it's like a fine pink salt, it's basically the same as like a fine in sea salt of the But not the same as diamond crystal. But then the diamond crystal is actually that they're many flakes, so it's actually like aerated compared to like how dense like a teaspoon of Himalayan pink salt or fine sea salt is. It's like you actually can double the diamond kosher salt.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That gets very complicated in a recipe.
SPEAKER_00It does, it does. And yet, and I've read so many disclaimers about salt and cookbooks. I've written a bunch of them. I've read articles about this and stuff, and still I think that people are just using whatever salt they've got. That's it's not gonna like change people's behaviors in a couple of things. Absolutely true.
SPEAKER_02And also, this is something I talk about with clients all the time. It's like, is like, should we be measuring, like, do people m want to measure salt? Like in general? Like, do cookbook readers want to measure salt? Do recipe writers want to measure salt? No one really wants to measure salt, but then you're like, it's also kind of important in certain circumstances to give people this baseline and to help them learn, and it's always kind of a tough conversation, I feel like, to figure out I'm a big advocate of measuring the salt just because otherwise it's really like the difference between cooking something and having it taste really delicious and being like, wow, I made this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And something that's like, all right, this tastes like dull. Dull, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I think it's I don't know. I d one of the clients that I work with, she told me that her rule of thumb is like a teaspoon of kosher salt per pound of meat. And um I hadn't heard that before.
SPEAKER_02I remember you telling me that once, and it is very satisfying to have some kind of it it kind of changed everything for me.
SPEAKER_00I was like, oh, this is just this gives me the baseline. Yeah. And maybe, you know, it doesn't it doesn't work perfectly every single time, but so I even think of that in terms of like roasted vegetables and not just meat, but I'm like, okay, a pound of cooked food essentially is about a teaspoon of kosher salt.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_00Diamond kosher salt. And it's been a really helpful thing to keep in the back of my mind.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. I I might I might ponder that too. The problem is, I mean, but like are you so do you have just that muscle memory where you're then able to be like that was about a teaspoon? Or are you measuring?
SPEAKER_00I now I just measure it. You do if I you know because then I kind of garden style. Pretty much, yeah. At least when I'm making something like even like roasted vegetables, I want to be able just to like throw everything on the sheet pan, drizzle with olive oil, add salt and pepper, and I mean it always tastes okay, but when it's properly seasoned, it actually tastes amazing. Yeah. And and so that also involves like mixing it together properly in a bowl and then scraping it onto the sheet pan. And like maybe measuring out the salt, or or at the very least, I just add a little bit more salt than I think should be in there, and that often makes a difference.
SPEAKER_02Maybe that could be my baby step.
SPEAKER_00Maybe. But uh wait, when you're making something like meatballs or hamburgers or something, just try the teaspoon of salt per pound of meat, and I mean I'd be curious to hear what you think if that feels as like transformative to you as it was.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm sure because again, I think I've said before, I'm a I definitely underseason. And then I'll try to sometimes compensate later, or sometimes I'll just be like, well, you can add some salt and pepper to the table. I know that doesn't work the same. I mean, it's just it's laziness, it's just like it's I don't know what it is, but it's not the right way. I mean being on this podcast has made me so much more conscious of how like lazy I am in the kitchen and how like these small efforts do make a difference. So that could be my goal this week. I could try to make just the teeniest bit of more seasoning that could I could try measuring a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Well, when I was working with that client I mentioned, I started just leaving the measuring spoon in the salt cellar. In our in the salt pig.
SPEAKER_02In the salt pig, yes. In the salt pig. In the mouth.
SPEAKER_00And uh so now rather than I just have like a quarter teaspoon in there, so that h helps me to measure rather than pinch for just pinches.
SPEAKER_02That's a good idea. Maybe I'll just keep it in there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And just see what happens.
SPEAKER_00Well, I so I started set this story, which will lead to the topic today. Um, and so I was at Costco and I saw diamond salt, and it was like $3.99, and I got so excited.
SPEAKER_02Like a hot damn, I'm getting it.
SPEAKER_00Threw that in the cart so fast, and then I got home and emptied it into my little salt salt cellar, and it's like iodized like table salt. I haven't cooked with this type of salt, I mean it sound like such a snob right now, but I have not cooked with this type of salt in such a long time. And I've got like a five-pound box of it, and I'm trying to figure out like what I'm gonna do with all this salt, and it's been so hard, it's thrown all of my cooking off. Like in my doing some baking, and I was like seasoning, it's like I in my the back of my mind, I'm like, okay, just use half as much. But then you are sometimes cooking things where you need to like like I was uh broiling some fish, and you know, I'm not gonna get out a measuring spoon to like sprinkle the fish with salt. Yeah, but then I was I was putting the pinches over, like, oh god, is this gonna end up being like way too salty? Yeah. It was. Yeah. And then even the other night, I was making like a baked rice thing, yeah, based on one of your recipes, and it was seasoning the boiling water, and my instinct is just like to pour salt from the box when I do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Came cascading out of the box. The water was so over seasoned. I was able to kind of like add more water and fix it, but um it's really thrown everything off, and I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna do with the salt so that I can just.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was the only thing I was thinking is I was like, you could just season your boiling water for like the rest of your life with that salt. It could just be exclusively, but even that sounds like it's gonna take some adjusting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I might just save it for like salt in the sidewalks next winter or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could make some sort of scrubbing your cutting board kind of move. Although it's probably not even as good for that because it's not as it's not as like crusty, it's not as big. I don't know why Costco doesn't hold if if only Costco would would do even if it was just less than twelve dollars a box, I'd I'd take that.
SPEAKER_00Well what a choice. Costco charges a maximum of 15% margin. So it would be I and I I saw diamond kosher salt at Trader Joe's where I think it was like nine dollars a box, which seemed really expensive to me. Yeah. But um for based on because it used to be so cheap. It was everywhere and it was so cheap. I know. But um this is gonna be our segue into the Costco talk. Like, why don't they carry diamond kosher salt?
SPEAKER_02I would love to have a one-on-one conversation with the buyers at Costco because I feel like there are certain things that it's just like if there's a lost opportunity here that like everyone would be buying. Because there is, I mean, there's a huge list of stuff that I just buy at Costco no matter like that's just where I get it. And salt seems like a very obvious like just make it so that people just buy their salt there.
SPEAKER_00They just but they do have a bunch of different salts. They have like the Himalayan pink salt, they have a plastic like tub of kosher salt. It's a different kosher salt, it's much coarser.
SPEAKER_02Um, I'm gonna use by that and it's not what you want. No, yeah. Much way too coarse. Talk about like, yeah, you could use it on your sidewalk, but that's sort of yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And also, if you want to really throw off the seasoning in your food, try cooking with that stuff.
SPEAKER_02That's for sure. I mean, even your fingers, you dip your fingers and you're like, this isn't it, this is wrong.
SPEAKER_00It's crazy. And yeah, then you're like, they must have the data to know that like this has become such a default salt in the world of cooking. I know. Why don't they carry? But I also wouldn't be surprised if some Costco's across the country did carry it and they just don't have it at the ones where we shop for I think that's that's definitely true.
SPEAKER_02The other salt, actually, they have mold and salt in the little pails. Have you seen them? Like a little buckle. Yes. Oh my gosh, it's so cute and so I'm I'm in I'm I hate spending money on fancy salt. That's not really I feel like it's not really the direction I want to be going in, but I'm like, I can't resist this just to like have for you know just the bucket and buy it once and we're gonna run out of that.
SPEAKER_00Well, what are your Costco staples?
SPEAKER_02Oh what are my Costco staples? Well, I was just thinking about this because my Costco membership is about is has actually run out. So I stupidly was like, I don't have time to go to Costco anytime soon, so I'll like do an online order, even though it costs a million times more.
SPEAKER_00It doesn't save you any money.
SPEAKER_02It doesn't save you any money. I was like, I'll do it, and I started loading in all the things that I always get, and it didn't have like half of the stuff that I go to Costco for. So it's like, you know, all paper products, that's boring. Toilet paper, paper towels, garbage bags, like that kind of stuff, you know, laundry detergent, um, etc. The food stuff though, all those special things that are really fun to get there, like Kimbop, I think we talked about here, they just don't that's just disappeared. They just never have that again. Or um like even one thing I definitely like, it's kind of not a Costco run if I don't get boneless, skinless chicken thighs. And they have or these organic ones that like come in this pack, it's really easy to they're all like shrink wrapped st really well, so you can just throw the whole thing in the freezer. So it's like I'll get like at least three packs of those. Or it like comes in a three pack. I'll at least get a bunch of those to stick in the freezer. Um, but it was so annoying because they had those, but they cost like seven or eight dollars a pound. And I was like, this is actually more expensive than the grocery store. The grocery store maybe doesn't have organic, which is great to get at Costco. You feel like you're kind of getting more for your money. But I was like, this is suddenly not cheap anymore to have this little piece this little pack of chicken that's gonna cost like more than ten bucks. Seems kind of nuts.
SPEAKER_00Per well, it's the whole three-pack thing.
SPEAKER_02Well, the whole three-pack. So the three-pack costs something like forty dollars. Yeah. And I was like, this is some chicken thighs, this isn't filet mignon. Like, I don't I don't know. I was kind of frustrated by that.
SPEAKER_00Well, the the online delivery stuff is powered by Instacart, and then I saw a um TikTok that said that you can actually order from Costco through the website and you don't have to be a member.
SPEAKER_02I heard that too, yes, because I then I filled out this whole cart and then it said I wasn't a member anymore, and I was like, oh and I was like, I was so unsatisfied. Well, it is I think it is true, but by that point I was like, I'm not even getting the stuff that I want. They didn't have like paper towels, they didn't have the garbage bags that I needed, they didn't have all the stuff that I wanted. So I was like, this is starting to just feel like I'm spending hundreds of dollars on like I don't even know what I was getting. Yeah. I do always I always get like olive oil, that's a big thing I get there. Um butter. They didn't have the butter, they didn't have carry gold, they didn't have regular butter.
SPEAKER_00I wonder what that's about. It's so um yeah, it's kind of opaque.
SPEAKER_02It's very opaque, and I think also it does have a tremendous amount to do with just like the Brooklyn warehouse, which I think is probably like the most Yeah, the the Brooklyn Costco is really I've been to Costco's in other parts of the country.
SPEAKER_00There's nothing like this Brooklyn. Nothing like this. It is a little bit feral. Oh my god, it's like the wild west.
SPEAKER_02I can't remember whether I told you I was there a few months ago, and I mean it literally takes me all day to go. Like I drop off the kids, I immediately get in the car. I like go there, and it takes like at least 45 minutes to find a parking spot. Like you just circle around and people are acting insane and like camping out in certain spots.
SPEAKER_00Lined up all the way around the warehouse. It's the warehouse, it's the same size as any other Costco. People are lined up all the way around to get in in the morning.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure. There it there's practically a line on Third Avenue just to like turn in there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's so tight, everyone's like, there's about to have an accident, like on every turn. So I finally found someone who was like unloading their cart. Like they may have even been rolling their cart. I was like, great, put my blinker on, was waiting there. To make a long story short, someone came up the other direction. As this person was pulling out, they were blocking me to pull out. This other person just went right in and he knew I was waiting. And I literally got out of the car and almost started a fist fight. And I was like, I've got I I like totally lost my mind. And then I was like, what happened?
SPEAKER_00What happened?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I literally like opened the car and I was like Did you confront him? Oh yeah. Because I was like real I was so mad. And he just like could not care less.
SPEAKER_00Didn't care. Just kept with walking.
SPEAKER_02Crazy lady. Like he gave me like the finger. He like walked off. He thought you were a crazy lady. He thought I was a crazy lady, which I was acting kind of crazy. But he like gave me the finger and then he just like walked off. Then I gave him the finger like a thousand times, and that didn't didn't accomplish anything. And then I like had to just keep looking for a parking spot. I was like, I hate this experience. And then it takes hours there, then there's like you know, 1,000 people online, then it takes when you get home, it takes a thousand hours to unload, then you have to go find parking in your own neighborhood. I can barely be ready to pick up the kids six hours later.
SPEAKER_00No, it's the funny thing, so I've been reading all these articles about Costco because people are obsessed with it as a business model. Yes. Like especially like entrepreneurial type people and people who you know want to deify business leaders and stuff like that. Like Costco is sort of like the gold standard of grocery. And and even just like the membership-based model, and then I guess it's it has roots in like the sort of turn of the century like uh socialist sensibility around um I could see that sort of it has you know, I may not not to summarize all this stuff, but like employees are treated really well, they have great health care, their wages are like double what people get paid at Walmart. Wow. The founders of Costco and Walmart sort of started at the same time, sort of early iterations of what these companies have now begun. Walmart's gone one way where everybody who works at Walmart is basically on food stamps as well, whereas Costco, right people, it's been sort of like a path to like or you know, can support like a middle class life. The way that it it's the capped 15% margin, the cleverness of like it being this warehouse setting where they save all this money, not having to like do all the shelving and all the slotting that like most grocery stores have to do. Yeah, the limited number of items that they have. Yeah, but it's also like most grocery stores have like over a hundred thousand skews, which is a skew is like an item inside a grocery store, whereas Costco only has like four thousand of them. So it's like there's all these different ways that they become incredibly efficient and profitable, and then at the same time make it a great place to work with like really high retention of employees. And then you go shopping there, and I feel like it kind of brings like the craziest person out of every every customer. It like it unleashes this like feral thing inside all of us. And it's it's like capitalism in its like most extreme imaginative uh expression. It's so crazy.
SPEAKER_02It is. I mean, to see like people just literally like going in there and buying hundreds of dollars worth of stuff. This is me too, just packing these huge carts with just like stuff is really odd.
SPEAKER_00It's really weird. I remember I brought um Vincent to Costco for his first Costco experience because it's not really a thing in Australia. I think maybe now it is, but when he first got here, it wasn't. And he was like he was speechless.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I and this was around the pandemic, and we went there and I got a tube of tortilla chips that's like the height of like a teenager or something. And he was like, What are you even gonna do with that many tortilla chips? I was like, I don't know, it's a it's a pandemic and it's Costco. We gotta get the tortilla chips. Come on. He was like, Who are you? What is this? Now he's fully part of it. He loves our Costco membership, he loves going to Costco.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00He's in the church.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. I remember um when I lived in California, um I was dating someone who was also from a foreign country, and all of his family would come and visit all the time, and like friends and whoever, and they'd stay with us. And we lived like in the Bay Area, like a gorgeous part of the country with so much to do. There was no question on everyone's list, at least once we were gonna go to Costco. Yeah. And people were gonna go crazy. They were just and it was so I was like, Yeah, okay, I guess, I guess we can go to Costco again and like help everybody buy like sweatsuits, I guess, for like everyone that they know.
SPEAKER_00But it was Oh, is that what the sort of stuff people want? like like yeah a lot of like outerwear a lot of um there was a lot of like deals that you just couldn't couldn't like get anywhere else it gets you in this mindset too where you're like it's a Costco and it's an iPad and it must be a really good deal so I better get it's like it brings out this uh a f a madness total madness I know yeah like electric toothbrushes yeah I guess we do need four new ones of those like just exactly it's only ninety dollars just like it's absurd it's crazy. Yeah it really is when I had my veggie burger business I used to work with a number of different like suppliers for the ingredients and stuff and then I at the time I wasn't I hadn't wasn't shopping at Costco or I wasn't a member there I hadn't been there since I was a kid and I went with somebody to Costco and I was like this is crazy this stuff is cheaper than what I'm getting through like the wholesale pricing on like quinoa and the almonds and the hazelnuts and like all these pretty expensive ingredients for the veggie burgers I was making and then in New York you look around and you see like oh this is where like all the bodegas are getting all the stuff that all the candy bars and the sports drinks and the and the bags of nuts and the water all the restaurants are buying their mayo and their ketchup and their meat it's like this is such a huge swath of people coming to like buy and then so they're all like reselling it too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah it's fascinating that that works I was just we uh Tom and I were out on Saturday night we had a babysitter and on the way home from dinner we were like oh let's go get like an ice cream or something we didn't pass by like any fun ice cream place so we're like oh we'll just pop into a bodega and get something and I'm very picky about ice cream so big surprise um but so I was like I'm just warning you Tom because I think it makes him crazy sometimes that I'm like not just sort of getting something and being happy with it. So I was like I'm just gonna warn you ahead of time I may or may not buy anything in this bodega. Like you should buy whatever you want I may participate I may not so we went in and he was like oh great like whatever he he found something he was going to get it and I saw these Hagendas ice cream bars but it wasn't the flavor that I really wanted so I was like oh just out of curiosity I asked him how much it was and it was like four dollars for this ice cream bar and I was like I'm just gonna get the one that I want at the grocery store and just get a bunch of them um and this bodega guy was really nice and he was like yeah he was like I wish we could charge less for them but you know like we just don't get them he's like I don't make any money on those it's just for some reason those are just incredibly expensive and he's like it would be cheaper for me to literally go to the grocery store and buy a pack of them myself and then resell them. He was like and sometimes I do do that and I was like oh I felt really bad because I was like yeah I I should probably just I don't know keep it in the community but I was like yeah I didn't have the flavor that I wanted but um yeah but I could see why people are going to Costco and getting that stuff though I do feel like the prices have really creeped up but maybe it's just I think that's everything. Right. It's I think it's just everything.
SPEAKER_00Well I think there is it's like a fixed 15% margin maximum. So some things some things are less than that. But like if the prices are going up that's probably like the cost of everything going up interesting.
SPEAKER_02Okay. That's a good way of thinking about it. Maybe that seems more reasonable. Because I was like as I was going through my list I was just like well I guess I could just get that at the grocery store oh I can get that at the Asian market oh I can like you know all these things I was like it would just be easier to just click yes on getting this delivery but also the delivery charges are just insane and it's yeah I think doing a delivery doesn't make it quite as lucrative for you know cost savings perspective. Yeah. But what do you what are your what are your must-haves when you go?
SPEAKER_00We go like how often do you guys go? Probably like every six weeks or so a month a month to six weeks. Yeah um and I mean I'm a big fan of yeah the olive oil there's an organic olive oil that we always buy and I don't I don't know why it's so cheap but it is it's like $17 for two big jars or two big bottles.
SPEAKER_02Oh is it the um the one that has this like animal on the front? The yellow yeah I don't do that I'm always like I don't know why this is the least expensive by the ounce of all of the olive oils but I'm like I buy like six bottles at once and like yeah and it's organic and I believe it's like single origin too yeah and it's pretty good.
SPEAKER_00It's I've bought the Kirkland version of organic olive oil and that one has can be kind of bad tasting I think yeah um so we always buy that we always buy um I love like the things of uh dates like that we get there um any like we like the animal protein those are a lot cheaper there yeah the um drinks he loves like the Celsius things which are there's like caffeinated drinks um I really love the vanilla paste you know that one oh yeah I love that vanilla paste that they carry that and they it's like a bigger jar is a lot cheaper than anywhere else I've ever's amazing same with the better than bouillon they also have yeah the better than bouillon yeah exactly jar yeah yes and then what else do we get? Um we always buy like tuna and sardines from there. We try to give ourselves like one little treat which is like always a little it's so hard to choose and it's like such a commitment. I know that you're like if I get this thing it's gonna you know we're gonna have forty five servings of it sitting around but um like what sort of treats like sometimes like those little parmesan crisp crackers have you had those those are so good. Yeah they're really good. And then we've bought I bought it by accent was but you know those like unreal candy bars?
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah those are good too coconut I mean they're just candy bars.
SPEAKER_00I know but um for some reason they feel like a virtuous candy bar or something it's just the packaging I guess. And then like black peppercorns I always give my black peppercorns at Costco too because they're yeah yeah it's just so many deals.
SPEAKER_02I know I know it's true.
SPEAKER_00Do you feel any guilt about being a Costco shopper? I mean you don't seem like a a guilt ridden type of person I definitely well well yeah tell me about that in what way well I just like I feel like my ideal person would like I did this morning I got up early and I wanted to get to the farmer's market because I can't do it. I couldn't do it on Monday I can't do it on Wednesday weekend's too crazy. I just like factor this into my weekday lucky to be able to do that. And ideally I just like buy everything there. I want it I would love to get like all of our vegetables all of our meats the fish just do it all but I'd spend so much money and it's just like not very convenient. Yeah. And um and I know that like these things aren't meant to be convey convenient. This is meant to be you know this is a practice this isn't like being a consumer but then Costco is just like it's it gets into your blood and it like gives you this like it's like some American cocaine or something there's like I gotta buy my stuff at C I know it's it brings out something in me that like once it wears off I'm a little bit like hung over and like that you know I know I know yeah when I'm driving home from Costco I'm always like what have I done?
SPEAKER_02Like I'm literally the car is like stocked to the it's filled to the brim and I'm like this is so there's something kind of gross about it about just like so much stuff.
SPEAKER_00It's this all the packaging at the end when you have this like stack of cardboard boxes you're like I'm embarrassed to put this out by the trash right now.
SPEAKER_02I know I know it's true. Especially once you like put stuff into its own Ziploc bags which has their own complications and this and that and you're just like yeah but there is that satisfaction of just being like man as I say to Tom like every time I go to Costco I'm like we never need to go food shopping again. Yeah it's done we're we're still set we are totally set. I mean there's something really fun about getting huge amounts of things at once because I do I am one of those people that like loves to be stocked. So having you know like big jars of quinoa and you know I don't know. Oh the quinoa almonds, cashews, pika all the nuts, all the nuts, all these big bags of flour like now they sell bread flour which has been really handy. I don't know if you've got to do that. I don't feel guilty exactly but it does I do feel like I do it as an economic play. And when the when when I start to feel like I might not actually be saving any money, then I start to say this might not be worth it. And I think it is in general a savings. Yeah. But it I don't know. I think it's a savings. Especially again like the grocery stores in Brooklyn are so expensive and the But uh that's the pro everything's so expensive. So I'd love to go to the farmers market too and buy all my produce and like you're saying all these meats and special ingredients and stuff. I just don't I don't know I it just doesn't seem affordable.
SPEAKER_00It doesn't seem as and it's not really like a viable option for very many people at all.
SPEAKER_02No but no it doesn't seem to be I mean I think it's great I guess if we can all go and get a few things and again I'm not blaming anybody. I know that this stuff is incredibly expensive to produce and it's must be so I was we were just walking past our local farmers market when they were closing down last weekend and I was like God this work must just be endless to like pack up these trucks. They were packing up these trucks with all the stuff that they hadn't sold and I was like what a downer that must be even if you have like a gangbusters day to still just be like I have all this perishable stuff that I'm just packing back into this truck and like what are you gonna do with it? I don't know. I know I mean hopefully they have a plan. But I don't know how the how the economics of that really can work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I guess it's also like we end up buying the organic chicken breasts and organic meats but they're like I don't those chicken breasts are I don't know if you've ever got them from Costco. They're huge. No they're huge. And it's pretty it's kind of disgusting. No it is to is like they're they're way way way too big even for being yeah and like they're organic too so I don't know why I don't feel like pumped with water or like what's going on.
SPEAKER_02No I know.
SPEAKER_00That makes me feel a little icky because it's obviously like industrialized it's super meat production on a huge scale. Yes. Yes one of the things like I read uh today Costco switched its like salmon sourcing from like maybe it wasn't salmon some fish or maybe it was a couple fish from Chile to like Norway and this basically disrupted the entire global seafood supply. That's like the scale of how big and influential Costco is I believe it.
SPEAKER_02I believe it.
SPEAKER_00And so then you're like buying these chicken breasts which I mean what's how different is it from whatever I'm getting at the grocery store or anywhere else but I'm like I don't it's not and it's not like Costco is like trying to conceal any of this it's like this is just the this is what shopping is in 2026 and in America so that's right. I don't know it's it's my it's my own issues.
SPEAKER_02No I'm I'm totally with you. I don't really want to think about these giant chickens. Because I'm like I know it's not great. No. I mean whatever I find out is just going to be bad news. So it's not a great thing to just put your head in the sand with that but I'm like I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But then I'm like okay so and it it's it's so silly then I'm like but these at least are organic like that that I know as it can be pay the premium for the organic.
SPEAKER_00Exactly not knowing what it means knowing that it's not actually that meaningful it just makes me feel a little bit better about in this situation I'm making this choice. Yes even though the situation is largely the same regardless of what I think I'm in a warehouse buying giant chicken breasts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, that's right. But uh yeah the alternative I mean buying chicken at the farmers market I can I have no idea how much it would cost but it's I think quite a bit.
SPEAKER_00It's I mean you're paying I think for a lot more like human labor in at the farmers market where it's everything's so industrialized. I do like I do feel like shopping there people are really like everybody that works there is really nice. Yes. And that I think makes such a huge difference too in the feeling of like just feeling good about shopping at Costco. Yes. And that everything you read is like this good healthcare there's 401k there's like people stay for a really long time like that if we're gonna be all trapped inside this giant industrialized corporate system at least have good jobs for people. Absolutely have you been to a Walmart lately?
SPEAKER_02No well no not especially lately but probably in the last year it's pretty grim there.
SPEAKER_00I f it's so palpable like that these are terrible jobs for people. Yeah you can you can sense the misery and then you see all these stats about like Walmart em our employees are like one of the biggest beneficiaries of like government snap benefits and stuff because they can't they can't they keep everybody from being like full time employees so they're all on like hourly part-time rates and they can't support themselves. It's such a it such a dismal business model.
SPEAKER_02It's really grim. Especially and obviously like I think those are those are jobs that are exist in places where there might not be a lot of other jobs so then you're also like there's not there's not a ton of alternatives.
SPEAKER_00And they do have some kind of they have their finger on some type of pulse for like just tickling that little like joy you know like what I remember the first time I took Costco or took Vincent to Costco I was like we're gonna get a soft serve because at this Costco had one in like since I was a kid but it's like you got to have the proper Costco experience. I I don't really like hot dogs but it should have been a hot dog but in lieu of a hot dog we did the soft serve. And so they you pay for all your purchases and then at this one they give you a little like voucher and then you go turn it into the food court person. And so we went to get the handed over the voucher and the guy was like oh you just is just a soft serve and I was like oh yeah just a soft serve and he takes this cup which was probably like a four four ounce cup and I'm not kidding he got 18 inches of soft serve piled on top of that little better start eating fast. Vincent was Vincent watched this happen and he was like what is going on this isn't like it was the the chocolate vanilla swirl and it just kept getting like higher such that we're like holding it and trying to like balance the soft serve so it doesn't like topple over while we're walking. It was so funny. Oh and that that was the last time we got the soft serve but I mean how how delightful that for like $1.49 you get more soft serve than you should possibly be eating in one city.
SPEAKER_02Yeah well there yeah they're they are like exceeding expectations certainly yeah exactly yeah I've got I've definitely gone there with the kids and Tom like in the last year and we've all been like starving and we've like okay we'll just eat something first and then we'll go shopping and it's like they price this stuff knowing all the how the all this goes so it makes so much more sense to get like one pizza an entire pizza than it does to get like three slices or something. So I'm like just in case we have enough so we order this whole pizza it's huge. Yeah it's huge it's just like two feet in diameter. Oh my god it's massive on one hand I'm like that's really exceeding expectations but on the other hand I'm like what on earth am I gonna do with all this like these like three giant slices of pizza that no one's eaten so there's a lot of waste. The pizza's not even that bad. I mean it's not great pizza I haven't had it okay it's not good pizza but it's hot and it's I don't know they're like pulling cheesy bready. Yeah yeah they're pulling them right out of the oven I don't know and when you're hungry it's gonna probably hit the spot.
SPEAKER_00There was one other thing about Costco that I wanted to mention about how um regional they are. Oh yeah I was actually gonna say that too yeah which I think is so fun when you're traveling and you have the opportunity to like dip into a Costco. Yes. Like I don't know if it was it was the same one but we happened to be in San Francisco and drove and went through the Costco and I was like oh my God what is all this fun stuff all these like great like packaged noodles and like Korean stuff and like all this Hawaiian food that I'm like you don't see this at the Costco in in uh in New York. Oh that's cool. And it was just so fun to like sort of like pour through all those things even we didn't end up buying them. Oh yeah and like in in New York the one down in Brooklyn that you've been going to has all that halal stuff. Oh yeah um which like a huge like brimming shelves with all the halal stuff the one up in Long Island City has all these great like Korean yeah ingredients and and noodles and things.
SPEAKER_02And some kind of obscure stuff too where it's like oh the world's most giant package of like dried sea cucumbers. You're like yes oh gosh and I'm not gonna buy it probably because I don't know what I'd do with it.
SPEAKER_00Somebody obviously will this is all these are all like data informed decisions that they're making and I kind of like love how they dedicate some energy to like servicing the local needs wherever they plant their Costco.
SPEAKER_02It would be a really interesting job to be like oh yeah this will really work with the Long Island City crowd but not with the you know regular Long Island crowd or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah or like the Brooklyn crowd.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah yeah but I'm just jealous of like whenever I go visit my sister like if or my mom or something if we go to Costco it's literally like it's so civilized to just like people into a parking spot. You go inside you might buy only like five items and then just pay for them and leave. I'm like you can be in and out in like a half an hour.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah it's like shopping at any other grocery store just you get exercise because it's so big.
SPEAKER_02Right. Whereas I do I mean I now I go probably like once every two or three months and then I just really stock up and it's insane. Also they I've been to ones I can't remember whether they had it in California or Washington when I live there but um the alcohol they used to have like amazing deals on alcohol which was awesome.
SPEAKER_00It's all private label stuff like we love the Bombay sapphire gin for like gin and tonics and there's like the Kirkland version that I think is the same. Right. It's one of these giant bottle of gin for like thirty bucks or something. Yeah it can't do that in New York they have different liquor regulations. What's the plan for dinner tonight?
SPEAKER_02That's a good question. Um well I did want to tell you I made the caramelized tuna at last. You did? Yes. Um so one thing that was really interesting about it, so I made it in the context of sushi bowls which I think I've mentioned before which is where we make like rice and have like avocado and cucumbers and little seaweed snacks another great thing from Costco seaweed snacks. So I made the caramelized tuna because I think I was like making salmon and I didn't have enough so I was like oh I'll make that also and see how everyone feels about it. Um and it was really yummy. It was it was odd because it was so sweet. Oh okay did you follow the recipe and then I followed the recipe um but I thought in the context of sushi bowls it really made sense. It you know what it reminded me of was um you know when you get uh that like broiled eel in a Japanese restaurant yeah yeah yeah yeah it had it really gave me that sort of feeling when I was eating it because it's like a little bit sweet and it's salty and it has this like kind of meaty texture because it's you know been cooked a tiny bit so it's like a little um very sort of toothsome. But I thought it was I thought it was really great. I think I don't think I'd want to just eat it like in a bowl by itself necessarily. Oh yeah you'd have to put it on rice or at least but there was something about yeah with like the avocado and some other texture and some white rice I thought it was pretty pretty yummy. Oh that's cool.
SPEAKER_00I mean and for like a can of tuna it's so easy right for real for real. Did you use the water pack tuna or yes I just used the water pack tuna because that's all I had.
SPEAKER_02So I was like yeah it would be fun to try it like with the exact recipe. Um because I'm sure that I mean oil packed tuna is so delicious and it does seem to have a certain uncuousness that water pack tuna is like delicious yeah exactly yeah yeah but I was excited for that so maybe I don't know maybe we'll do something like that because I don't have um I don't have any meats defrosting or any we just had pasta last night. I don't know I need some something else. Yeah some fish. Okay. Yeah what are you thinking?
SPEAKER_00Well I wanted to tell you I made I think I mentioned this earlier but um you wrote that great thing about the old fashioned rice gratin.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah did you do something about it?
SPEAKER_00I did and I had made like oven baked risotto before but I don't think I'd ever made a rice gratin and you write so compellingly about it that I was so inspired. I of course did my own thing and I had to like proteinify it and stuff.
SPEAKER_02Oh so what did you do with protein?
SPEAKER_00That's an interesting well I'm working on for my book I'm working on this like sort of like sauce that's like a It sounds so gross when you describe it, but it's actually really good and it's like a creamy green sauce with like cottage cheese blended.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that sounds like a good idea.
SPEAKER_00And you can sort of you can use it to make like a stovetop mac and cheese type thing. And uh but I wanted to like give a couple different applications for it, and so I wondered if you could incorporate it into like a baked grain. Yeah. And it worked really well. So I like roasted off some like random assortment of vegetables.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then I cooked half rice, half quinoa. Um, and then mixed it all together. I diluted it with some of the cooking water and topped it with some parmesan. Yeah. It was delicious.
SPEAKER_02That's a great idea. So good. That's a really fun way of thinking about it. Especially with quinoa. I've never um did you cook them together? Like just like pasta?
SPEAKER_00I just did. Yeah, I just in my mind there's like two types of grains. There's short cooking ones and long cooking ones. Yeah. And I know that you could probably like there's there's they're not exact the cooking times, but when you're paraboiling them in your throwing in the oven, and like even this is what I do in the rice cooker too. I just combine everything in the rice cooker, and it always works out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's maybe more good enough than like great. Right.
SPEAKER_02But um but it's not really the purpose of the dish. I mean, it's in the it there's all this other stuff going on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. Yeah. But I also it's like I I feel like my mom used to make something that she would call like rice casserole. And it reminded me of that a little bit. Yes. And where it's like sliceable too. Like in my mind, I think when you had told me about this years ago, I was picturing like sort of like fluffy rice and you like use a spoon to scoop it from but it's more like wedges. Yeah. I was almost thinking like, should I crack an egg into here to give it like a more of a interesting idea texture?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I didn't I I didn't want that to like dry it out. But it was really good. I just finished off the rest of it today for breakfast.
SPEAKER_02Oh, good. Yummy breakfast. Yeah. It's um and it still hasn't got like warmed up a hundred percent here, so I guess a gratin still sounds kind of delicious.
SPEAKER_00It does. Well, the recipe that you had is like basically a ratatouille sort of like summery vegetable profile.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's true. Like on a rainy. Maybe I'll make that tonight, actually. I have some veggies I could throw in there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I recommend it. I was looking at a couple other recipes too, and there's one southern rice, I guess a gratin, where he makes like a a roux and then puts the grains in there and bakes it all off. So it's like milky, creamy, yeah, and yummy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Can't be bad. And I've got some cottage cheese too, maybe. So yours was just like a blended thing that you just poured in with other liquid. Okay. Maybe it's cottage cheese in there too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you probably don't need to blend it to be honest.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, it's true. Just throw it red in. Okay. Some good ideas. Well, great. Yeah. Um, well, let's just talk soon. Sounds good. Have a good dinner. Okay, you too. Okay, thanks. Bye-bye. Bye.
